(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[AGA]SZ[19]KM[7.50]TM[7200]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]
GN[US Open Round 1- 2008 US Go Congress Xuefen Lin (1p) vs Richard Liang (7d)]PW[Xuefen Lin]PB[Richard Liang]WR[1p]BR[7d]DT[2008-08-03]EV[US Open]RO[1]PC[The KGS Go Server at http://www.gokgs.com/]US[Richard Dolen]C[USGO4 [-\]: The players are assembling, but are awaiting the signal to start
kjjdjuire: where can i see the shedules?
Nyanjilla [-\]: look at the user info of the scribe
USGO4 [-\]: USGO1:  Welcome to the 2008 US Open, broadcasting live from Portland, Oregon! The Open is being held at the US Go Congress and features one of the strongest fields in North America.  The games are being broadcast by the American Go E-Journal; free go news from around the world, delivered free via email; sign up at www.usgo.org
USGO4 [-\]: A cool, overcast day here in Portland, OR
kjjdjuire: thx
Nouli [-\]: Xuefen lin is from china ?
USGO4 [-\]: Richard Liang is wearing a buff t-shirt
Eliza [1k\]: I'd be more interested if he were buff....
Eliza [1k\]: *ooops*
USGO4 [-\]: Xuefen Lin is wearing a blue sweater and a pony tail.
USGO4 [-\]: Both are in jeans and sneakers
avatar1 [2d?\]: when will it start ?
USGO4 [-\]: The clocks have just been set, they will start momentarily
Nyanjilla [-\]: heh... "momentarily" means something different in my idiolect...
Nyanjilla [-\]: ...at least, I do hope you mean it in the US sense...
USGO4 [-\]: It has started.
]RE[W+0.50]
;B[dp]
;W[pd]
;B[dc]C[Uberdude [2d\]: Nyanjilla, i've had that  discussion sewveral times on kgs =)
]
;W[pq]
;B[nc]
;W[de]C[Nick8a [2k\]: wow
Nick8a [2k\]: go w
Nick8a [2k\]: she is my teacher
]
;B[dh]
;W[ge]C[Kuroshi [21k\]: hmm
smity93 [19k\]: ccan any1 explain that move?
smity93 [19k\]: and d12 for that matter?
YangX [4d\]: its a joseki
YangX [4d\]: d12 is a pincer
smity93 [19k\]: ok that makes sense
smity93 [19k\]: would g17 have been any good instead of d12?
]
;B[fc]C[Uberdude [2d\]: it would have been rather low and passive
Uberdude [2d\]: particularly with p17 low too
]
;W[cc]C[xfhm [12k?\]: h16
smity93 [19k\]: then white could just play g16 tho?
Uberdude [2d\]: c18 
Uberdude [2d\]: it is the key point for a abse
Uberdude [2d\]: c16 is the only other possibility really, can't tenuki
smity93 [19k\]: can u even build a base with a 1 point extension on the 3rd line?
smity93 [19k\]: i thought 2 space minimum?
]
;B[cb]
;W[cd]
;B[bb]C[Uberdude [2d\]: the reason for this 2 space at f17 is to look at weakness in g15 jump
Uberdude [2d\]: cut white
]
;W[kd]
;B[ne]
;W[pf]
;B[pb]C[Richdad [5d\]: b is left really low on top
Nick8a [2k\]: go w
]
;W[qc]
;B[kb]
;W[md]C[Nick8a [2k\]: did like l18 for b
Nick8a [2k\]: didnt*
]
;B[nd]C[Richdad [5d\]: after q18 only move
]
;W[lb]
;B[lc]
;W[kc]
;B[mb]
;W[jb]
;B[la]
;W[gc]C[smity93 [19k\]: g18?
]
;B[fe]
;W[eb]C[YangX [4d\]: -O
liusasori [2k\]: e18 ...
liusasori [2k\]: look like pro move
liusasori [2k\]: f18 for b ?
liusasori [2k\]: f18 e17 e16 d18 d16 e15 f16 f14 e19 g18 d19 ?
Richdad [5d\]: awesome answer
karui [6d\]: f18 e16
Richdad [5d\]: D16 seems the point
liusasori [2k\]: ok, thx
karui [6d\]: d16 bad
Richdad [5d\]: why?
karui [6d\]: d16 c14 f18 f16
Richdad [5d\]: ws cut there
Richdad [5d\]: in the seuqence you jsut gave
Richdad [5d\]: bs is aout and e18 captured
Richdad [5d\]: still i wouldnt F18, i would G16
Richdad [5d\]: g16 h16 f16 f18 d18  
Richdad [5d\]: w left many cuts there
karui [6d\]: if g16 i f18
karui [6d\]: and than b12
]
;B[dd]C[karui [6d\]: also if d16 i can e16
Richdad [5d\]: w has 4 cuts if he plays that way
karui [6d\]: what if i now e16?
Richdad [5d\]: e16 e17 f16 e15 g16 d14 c15 f18 =?
]
;W[fb]
;B[fd]C[Richdad [5d\]: this order is better for w than we had discussed karui: black couldnt G16 H16
Richdad [5d\]: now w can give up g15
Richdad [5d\]: c14 d18 b12 g16 h17 
Richdad [5d\]: still its hard to understand, at least for me, the strategic value of this fight
USGO4 [-\]: Both players have used up 30 minutes of their 2 hr time.
]
;W[db]
;B[ce]
;W[be]
;B[cf]
;W[ec]
;B[ed]
;W[ff]C[liusasori [2k\]: beautiful shape for w
]
;B[bd]
;W[gd]C[liusasori [2k\]: is g16 the move for b ?
]
;B[bc]
;W[qn]C[Uberdude [2d\]: hmm i think b did ok there
Uberdude [2d\]: c12 strong now, too close true
Uberdude [2d\]: but captures lots
]
;B[jq]
;W[cn]C[Uberdude [2d\]: i hope b gets sente to r12
Richdad [5d\]: hard to call ther esult good for w
xfhm [8k?\]: b5
Richdad [5d\]: b is so thick
Richdad [5d\]: and w has g14 weakness
Richdad [5d\]: and j18
Richdad [5d\]: B5 now, takes a lot of cash
Uberdude [2d\]: yes i'd b5
]
;B[fp]
;W[bp]C[Uberdude [2d\]: oh my
Uberdude [2d\]: this is so soft
Uberdude [2d\]: w settles so easily
]
;B[cm]
;W[bm]C[Nick8a [2k\]: w is strong player
Richdad [5d\]: ladder is good for w
]
;B[cl]C[Richdad [5d\]: feesl like b playing the stronger side
]
;W[bl]C[xfhm [8k?\]: b no cash
Uberdude [2d\]: wtf b doing?
Uberdude [2d\]: i didn't think could get worse after f4...
Uberdude [2d\]: but i was wrong
]
;B[ck]C[Nick8a [2k\]: e6?
]
;W[dn]
;B[cq]
;W[bq]
;B[ib]
;W[ic]
;B[hb]
;W[gb]
;B[ja]C[road2hell [5d\]: small
]
;W[jc]C[Nick8a [2k\]: wasnt so small she played d6 instead
]
;B[qh]
;W[qk]
;B[qe]
;W[pe]
;B[qf]C[Nick8a [2k\]: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30W3iRL48gQ
]
;W[qb]
;B[pc]
;W[qd]
;B[pg]
;W[re]
;B[rf]
;W[se]C[Uberdude [2d\]: that corner shape is a ko
Anberlin [6k\]: is this game even?
]
;B[sc]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: yes
KintaroOe [6k\]: oh, did you go to the aga go camp?  you have a name similar to what someone told me
]
;W[sb]C[Anberlin [6k\]: yup
]
;B[rb]
;W[rc]
;B[sa]
;W[qa]
;B[sf]
;W[ra]C[Nano [-\]: lol
]
;B[nq]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: :O
KintaroOe [6k\]: nano? :D
Uberdude [2d\]: gah 7d fail
Nano [-\]: yes
Uberdude [2d\]: stright j group
Uberdude [2d\]: is like a simple tsumego
Nano [-\]: lol
]
;W[pp]C[Uberdude [2d\]: r19 s19 t18 is the ko
Nano [-\]: were you at camp kintaro?
Anberlin [6k\]: He was brian
Nano [-\]: ah
]
;B[no]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: oh, yea xD
KintaroOe [6k\]: <---has too many windows up
Anberlin [6k\]: :O
katori15 [5k\]: if the have a track wheel it maybe be set the jump to next window on click
]
;W[lq]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: these other ppl watching are prolly thinkin "be quiet and watch the game >.<"  so i'ma be quiet for now xD
Nano [-\]: lol ok 
Anberlin [6k\]: haha, they wont mind if you talk about the game, probably ;)
KintaroOe [6k\]: ok, erm....would m2 be dis-advantigous for b? how's that?
Anberlin [6k\]: hmm <_<
KintaroOe [6k\]: or mabey m4?  or am i being 6k again? ._.
Anberlin [6k\]: Lol
]
;B[mr]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: i should just leave the comments to lower kyu's and dans (-__-')
]
;W[hq]
;B[ip]C[Anberlin [6k\]: Lol
]
;W[hp]
;B[ho]
;W[jr]
;B[kr]
;W[ir]C[Almdudler [3d\]: to kyus? o.O
Musketeer [3d\]: L3
KintaroOe [6k\]: and what if w plays e3 after?
Musketeer [3d\]: w will play g5
Hagalaz [4k\]: it's richard!
]
;B[kq]C[Hagalaz [4k\]: how is he doing
Anberlin [6k\]: richards cool :p
KintaroOe [6k\]: well, i think
]
;W[fr]C[Hagalaz [4k\]: i hope he wins, that way i'll feel less bad about my terrible loss haha
KintaroOe [6k\]: well, he;s 7d, geez
Anberlin [6k\]: haha
KintaroOe [6k\]: possibly better
Nano [-\]: I think b is totally gonna win
Nick8a [2k\]: go w
Anberlin [6k\]: ^^^ non believer
Nick8a [2k\]: she my teacher
]
;B[go]C[Anberlin [6k\]: oh cool :)
KintaroOe [6k\]: and righard was ours
KintaroOe [6k\]: xD
Nano [-\]: lol
Musketeer [3d\]: w's stones are too low
KintaroOe [6k\]: richard*
Anberlin [6k\]: lol :p
]
;W[eq]
;B[ep]C[Nick8a [2k\]: may the best player win
]
;W[cr]C[Anberlin [6k\]: :p
Nick8a [2k\]: wow go w
]
;B[dr]
;W[dq]C[Anberlin [6k\]: f3?
]
;B[cp]C[Anberlin [6k\]: o.O
]
;W[br]C[Nano [-\]: omg b
Nick8a [2k\]: hmm
Nick8a [2k\]: not good for w
KintaroOe [6k\]: yea....hmm
Uberdude [2d\]: this is great for w
Nano [-\]: ya
Nick8a [2k\]: maybe she just play e1
Nick8a [2k\]: when b plays f3
Uberdude [2d\]: b didn't start too badly i thought
Nick8a [2k\]: just give 2 instead of tail
]
;B[on]C[Uberdude [2d\]: but f4 was soft
Uberdude [2d\]: and tsumego fail at top was a kyu problem
Uberdude [2d\]: d6 is shining now
Musketeer [3d\]: p6 slow, but firm
Nick8a [2k\]: wait
Nick8a [2k\]: i am crazy
Nick8a [2k\]: w not in trouble
Nick8a [2k\]: time to wreck the center
KintaroOe [6k\]: TT_TT
Nano [-\]: I dont think its possible that the upper right corner was a misread on richards part
Uberdude [2d\]: i do
KintaroOe [6k\]: >.>
Nick8a [2k\]: u sai it was ko
Nick8a [2k\]: where did he go wrong
Uberdude [2d\]: yes
Uberdude [2d\]: t17 should hane
Musketeer [3d\]: w's leading on territory
Musketeer [3d\]: b has a little moyo
Uberdude [2d\]: the only redeeming feature of this line is he can take s16 in gote
Uberdude [2d\]: which makes r12 stronger
Uberdude [2d\]: but given his slack play at f4 he needed a ko
]
;W[ng]
;B[ld]
;W[nj]C[Nick8a [2k\]: strong moves by w
Nick8a [2k\]: b in some trouble on the right
]
;B[qm]
;W[rm]C[Nick8a [2k\]: can probibly live though
Musketeer [3d\]: both o13 and o10 are p players' moves
]
;B[rn]C[Nick8a [2k\]: nice cross cut
]
;W[ro]C[Nick8a [2k\]: yes beautiful play
Musketeer [3d\]: yes! but b will get gote here
]
;B[rl]C[Nick8a [2k\]: attacks that group, centre, and is double connected
]
;W[sn]
;B[ql]C[Nick8a [2k\]: r10?
]
;W[rk]
;B[sl]C[Nick8a [2k\]: s11
Musketeer [3d\]: s11
]
;W[ok]C[Nick8a [2k\]: or just t9
Nick8a [2k\]: hmm yea
Nick8a [2k\]: s11 bad
]
;B[pn]C[Nick8a [2k\]: now
monboubou [2k?\]: forgot that b can play s16?
monboubou [2k?\]: s11 useless
]
;W[sb]C[Musketeer [3d\]: w is in control
]
;B[og]C[Nick8a [2k\]: o14?
]
;W[nh]C[Nick8a [2k\]: w not strong enough for fight i guess
Musketeer [3d\]: maybe s11
Nick8a [2k\]: b should connect right
Nick8a [2k\]: then b play tengen 
Nick8a [2k\]: or something
Nick8a [2k\]: then w*
]
;B[of]
;W[nf]
;B[oe]C[Nick8a [2k\]: nice wall
Musketeer [3d\]: b play 2 non-point moves
]
;W[lf]C[Nick8a [2k\]: yea w lookin good
]
;B[qo]
;W[qp]
;B[rn]C[Nick8a [2k\]: g10 or something
Nick8a [2k\]: i would ignore
]
;W[rq]C[Musketeer [3d\]: b n11
]
;B[le]
;W[ke]
;B[mi]C[Nick8a [2k\]: i think the center was bigger
Musketeer [3d\]: there's g14 cut for b
Nick8a [2k\]: h10 was probibly better
Nick8a [2k\]: yea
]
;W[lj]C[Nick8a [2k\]: that cut would give b alot on left
Musketeer [3d\]: but have to wait for a right time
Musketeer [3d\]: maybe k10 now
manestor [7k\]: non more points for b in the center
]
;B[pj]C[Nick8a [2k\]: ehh
Nick8a [2k\]: still so open
Nick8a [2k\]: should be dame
Nick8a [2k\]: but anything can happen
manestor [7k\]: k10 
]
;W[pk]
;B[mf]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: i sense something dastardly coming on
Nick8a [2k\]: a fight
]
;W[lg]C[Nick8a [2k\]: me to
manestor [7k\]: didn't like q9 
Nick8a [2k\]: its fine
]
;B[ni]
;W[oi]
;B[oh]C[manestor [7k\]: nah
Nick8a [2k\]: n10
]
;W[lh]C[Uberdude [2d\]: w has reduced b middle
]
;B[mj]
;W[mk]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: and gained some of his/her own
]
;B[oj]
;W[nk]
;B[pi]
;W[kk]
;B[jj]
;W[li]C[Nick8a [2k\]: got alot of influence
]
;B[ll]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: :o
]
;W[kl]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: i think b leading slightly but then again i'm 6k >_>
Nick8a [2k\]: she was happy to play l8
Nick8a [2k\]: she is lookin to playg13 i think
KintaroOe [6k\]: why not f12?
]
;B[gf]C[Nick8a [2k\]: y not g11
Nick8a [2k\]: maybe w want to fight
Nick8a [2k\]: and will g13
Nick8a [2k\]: then f12
Nick8a [2k\]: look do-able
Nick8a [2k\]: she thinking it over
Nick8a [2k\]: thers is a live feed is there
Nick8a [2k\]: isnt*
manestor [7k\]: b's center is not big
Musketeer [3d\]: the w wall is pretty thick
]
;W[hf]
;B[gg]C[Musketeer [3d\]: so ...
]
;W[hg]
;B[gh]
;W[hh]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: hmm
Nick8a [2k\]: o man
Musketeer [3d\]: never mind
]
;B[gi]
;W[bk]C[Nick8a [2k\]: i wonder what she saw to not play g13
Musketeer [3d\]: black is happy
KintaroOe [6k\]: that's...yea
Nick8a [2k\]: yea
]
;B[cj]
;W[kn]C[Nick8a [2k\]: b ahead now
Musketeer [3d\]: b gained a little
Musketeer [3d\]: but still behind
Nick8a [2k\]: u think w ahead
Musketeer [3d\]: w ahead
Musketeer [3d\]: b10 pretty big
Nick8a [2k\]: hmm se is terrible then
pani: hey guys im a beginner still learning. about the ranking system, is it P>D>K ?
Nano [3k\]: lol ya se is always terrible
Anberlin [6k\]: yes
Nick8a [2k\]: kgs should just use igs SE
Nano [3k\]: yes pani
pani: thanks nano
Anberlin [6k\]: i said yes too :p
pani: thanks anberlin :D
Anberlin [6k\]: heh
Nano [3k\]: lol
Nick8a [2k\]: b10 is big
Musketeer [3d\]: well, the center is basically no points for black
KintaroOe [6k\]: mabey 10? or not even that
Nick8a [2k\]: can play g8
Nick8a [2k\]: mak some points but yea
KintaroOe [6k\]: first he needs to stop m4 from connecting right?
Nick8a [2k\]: she doesnt need to
pani: why is he not playing?
Anberlin [6k\]: hes thinking
Nick8a [2k\]: but if sh does they would be dea or on the run
]
;B[or]
;W[qn]C[pani: i really need to learn how to play :p
KintaroOe [6k\]: nick, are you calling richard a she?
Anberlin [6k\]: i think he meens lin
]
;B[fq]
;W[er]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: ok, just chekin xD
]
;B[rn]C[Anberlin [6k\]: (who is a she)
Anberlin [6k\]: lol :O
KintaroOe [6k\]: yea
]
;W[pr]
;B[em]C[Nano [3k\]: richard is a girl, didnt you guys know that?
KintaroOe [6k\]: xDDD
Anberlin [6k\]: lol
slinky [-\]: last pro player
slinky [-\]: shall she win?!?!?
]
;W[hj]
;B[hi]
;W[ii]C[pani: how long does a game usually takes?
]
;B[km]C[Musketeer [3d\]: she shall win
KintaroOe [6k\]: depends
Musketeer [3d\]: i mean w
KintaroOe [6k\]: yea
KintaroOe [6k\]: but to answer pani's question, it all varies
KintaroOe [6k\]: there are fast moderat and slow games, it all depends on weather they decide to think ;)
]
;W[lm]
;B[jm]
;W[ln]
;B[ij]
;W[il]C[USGO4 [-\]: W has 45 minutes left ; B has 40
Nano [3k\]: h8?
Anberlin [6k\]: whats the bio yomi?
]
;B[hl]C[Nano [3k\]: ooo i called it
Anberlin [6k\]: Lol
KintaroOe [6k\]: lol
]
;W[hm]C[royalty [3d\]: and white shows why it would be perhaps better to just capture with h9
KintaroOe [6k\]: :(
Uberdude [2d\]: honte people
KintaroOe [6k\]: is honte some term i'm not aware of? :-/
Lynx [2d\]: honte is a word I haven't heard for a long time...
Nano [3k\]: I dont know what it means either
Fiara [8k\]: True move.
royalty [3d\]: it's when you dont try to be a smart ass on the board
NPcomplete [5k\]: honte is a proper move
]
;B[jl]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: ah
KintaroOe [6k\]: that looks fun
robertm [2d\]: usually mean slow looking move, but notheless the proper move
Fiara [8k\]: Doesn't it like translate directly to, true move or something? :P
KintaroOe [6k\]: the best definition is most likely on sensei's =3
Ulath [5k\]: I thought it was "reinforcment move"
Musketeer [3d\]: black resign
royalty [3d\]: k9 j9 j7 k6 h9 k11 , trouble
Nano [3k\]: you resign musketeer
KintaroOe [6k\]: xD
royalty [3d\]: h9  first maybe..
Musketeer [3d\]: black is drunk
Musketeer [3d\]: k9 for w
Fiara [8k\]: Honte is a Japanese go term adopted by English. A move which is honte ('the proper move') is one that is played to reduce the amount of aji in one's position. By playing honte, you gain fewer points than an otherwise more aggressive move. While possibly ending in gote, the benefit is the more solid position (having little aji) which may provide better opportunities later in the game.
USGO4 [-\]: The players have chosen to take a lunch break.  The game will resume in one hour.  (1:15 PDT)
Fiara [8k\]: :P
royalty [3d\]: darn
Nano [3k\]: lol
Fiara [8k\]: Honte == solid play
royalty [3d\]: meh, my move has the problem of black j7..
iNguyen [4d\]: were all the stronger player forced to take white/
royalty [3d\]: no move seems to work too great
KintaroOe [6k\]: i'm not sure
Ho [5k\]: honte in a frech word, n'est pas?
ketchup [5k\]: lol both must be hungry
Ho [5k\]: french
royalty [3d\]: k9 j9 k6 j7 j6 j8 might just be the best
manestor [7k\]: yeah, but it means something else
robertm [2d\]: color should be randomly chosen in an "OPEN"
manestor [7k\]: "honte" means shame in french
Ho [5k\]: of cours:)
manestor [7k\]: it has nothing to do with the go term
Ho [5k\]: :) i know
manestor [7k\]: :)
Confuse24 [3k\]: there hungry
Musketeer [3d\]: honte = benshou
USGO4 [-\]: W sealed the move. 
KintaroOe [6k\]: meaning? o.o
USGO4 [-\]: breaking for lunch -- returning by 1:15pm PST
Tsuijin [1d\]: cool
KintaroOe [6k\]: ah
USGO4 [-\]: thanks for watching & stay tuned
Musketeer [3d\]: is it lunch time?
USGO4 [-\]: we'll be back
USGO4 [-\]: yes, its 12:23pm here PST
royalty [3d\]: 22:24 here, play faster :P
KintaroOe [6k\]: ok, so that's not quite an hour
KintaroOe [6k\]: i'll be waiting :p
USGO4 [-\]: Both players have returned early from lunch, so we will be resuming the game as soon as both are ready to play.
USGO4 [-\]: Look for a restart in the next minute or two.
]
;W[jk]C[Ciovo [5k?\]: looks the game is quite even, and both players can still win... what do you think?
KintaroOe [6k\]: i think b's gonna win
Hagalaz [4k\]: i hope b's gonna win
Khouphrane [5d\]: the same here
]
;B[ik]
;W[jn]
;B[im]
;W[in]
;B[il]
;W[dm]C[Ciovo [5k?\]: i think white can reduce quite a lot...
KintaroOe [6k\]: i guess we'll see ;)
]
;B[el]
;W[bj]C[Ciovo [5k?\]: f6?
]
;B[bi]
;W[hn]
;B[jh]C[Confuse24 [3k\]: f6 doesnt work
]
;W[mp]
;B[np]C[Uberdude [2d\]: hmm could t7?
]
;W[ih]
;B[ji]
;W[jg]C[Cassis0 [3d\]: close game... maybe the ko decide
USGO4 [-\]: For latest Congress tourney info, click on http://usgo.org/congress/2008/ Round-by-round pairings, running crosstabs and more! Click here to check out what our top players look like: http://usgo.org/congress/2008/openplayers.html 
]
;B[sm]
;W[so]C[Cassis0 [3d\]: a11
]
;B[ps]
;W[qs]
;B[os]
;W[qr]C[USGO4 [-\]: Both players seem to be counting
easygoing [2d?\]: b right side is big
easygoing [2d?\]: left
]
;B[lr]
;W[dl]
;B[ek]
;W[ai]
;B[nm]
;W[mm]
;B[bh]
;W[ah]
;B[ag]
;W[aj]C[Cassis0 [3d\]: i didnt get m2... 
genesis5: b winning by about 2 pts I'd say
KintaroOe [6k\]: mabey b was trying to get a few extra points, cassis?
royalty [3d\]: let me check what SE says
Cassis0 [3d\]: a11 was huge 
royalty [3d\]: nope, white wins by 4,5
Ciovo [5k?\]: S11 very important point, i think...
Cassis0 [3d\]: kintarooe 
]
;B[bg]C[Cassis0 [3d\]: m2 is like * i do not want to die* ... but no risks to.. 
Jenghis [2k\]: Did Mingjiu win his game? I didn't get to see the end.
easygoing [2d?\]: he did
MaLa [2k\]: he did by resign
Jenghis [2k\]: Good
mike2096 [5k\]: wow
KintaroOe [6k\]: hmm
mike2096 [5k\]: pro losing
]
;W[ri]C[ketchup [5k\]: no..
ketchup [5k\]: w will win by 1-2 pts lol
Ciovo [5k?\]: i got it! :)
slinky [-\]: they back from lunch?
Rodolphe [3d\]: yeah white loose
Rodolphe [3d\]: impossible to win ....
slinky [-\]: :(
KintaroOe [6k\]: :D
]
;B[rh]
;W[fm]
;B[gl]
;W[en]C[Shenron [1d\]: SE is accurate
]
;B[gm]
;W[gn]C[BlackSmurf [2k\]: no way !
BlackSmurf [2k\]: ^^
Rodolphe [3d\]: ho god, perhaps whte win ^^
Shenron [1d\]: no
Niouth: J5 plz
ketchup [5k\]:  7.5 komi
YogSothoth [1k\]: aga rules, se never accurate with those
Shenron [1d\]: f8
]
;B[io]C[Clark [-\]: j5
Rodolphe [3d\]: L4 after
BALLZ [1d?\]: B+4.5
genesis5: f8 would be big mistake shenron because of f5
Shenron [1d\]: yes
Kael [2d\]: who is b?
Kael [2d\]: Xuefen?
ketchup [5k\]: look at the screen
KintaroOe [6k\]: richard
ketchup [5k\]: the names are there..
Kael [2d\]: i wasn't sure the order >< 
Hagalaz [4k\]: who is troll?
ketchup [5k\]: both on top and on their respective colors :)
Ruzinus [7k?\]: dont be crude hag
ketchup [5k\]: d9 m4?
Confuse24 [3k\]: j3 is sente
Kael [2d\]: ah, yeah, i was just being an idiot :) sorry, didn't see the color on the names
genesis5: p18
]
;W[ob]
;B[oc]
;W[pa]
;B[lp]C[Paradize [2k\]: q5
]
;W[mo]
;B[mq]
;W[fl]
;B[fk]
;W[dk]
;B[dj]
;W[fn]C[ketchup [5k\]: m5
adwue [3k\]: j3
ketchup [5k\]: o8 then q5?
Confuse24 [3k\]: thats not big
]
;B[co]
;W[bo]C[Confuse24 [3k\]: g3
]
;B[gq]
;W[gr]C[Johnny5 [7k\]: b is going to win because he has a B2 bomber hiding amidst his stones
Hagalaz [4k\]: good call michael
]
;B[nl]
;W[ml]
;B[kj]C[Johnny5 [7k\]: the nose is at j7
]
;W[lk]
;B[kh]C[Johnny5 [7k\]: >:)
]
;W[kg]C[KintaroOe [6k\]: b needs a dagger xD
Karoxys [8k\]: N12
Ciovo [5k?\]: it's a good potential!!
]
;B[ia]C[Confuse24 [3k\]: h17
Ciovo [5k?\]: C19
Confuse24 [3k\]: not big
]
;W[po]
;B[qn]C[Karoxys [8k\]: white N12
Confuse24 [3k\]: if w c19 b h17
Confuse24 [3k\]: then w blocks
Confuse24 [3k\]: then b blocks
Cassis0 [3d\]: someone counted? 
Confuse24 [3k\]: yose is to gain points not lose the same amount
Confuse24 [3k\]: i did
Confuse24 [3k\]: b+4.5
Cassis0 [3d\]: ok
easygoing [2d?\]: o6?
Confuse24 [3k\]: at this point maybe less
Ciovo [5k?\]: but it's 2 point difference C19, H17 is one
Confuse24 [3k\]: no
Confuse24 [3k\]: not really
clanogrady [4k\]: even if it is ing counting?
yoyoma [1d\]: c19 is a 2 point gote and H17 is a 1 point sente.  It's the same.
]
;W[ks]
;B[ls]
;W[js]C[Confuse24 [3k\]: ty
Clark [-\]: o6
]
;B[hc]
;W[hd]C[HeeroYuy [4k\]: also black can get extra point at o19
Ciovo [5k?\]: reverse sente for white
Confuse24 [3k\]: 019
]
;B[iq]C[HeeroYuy [4k\]: o19 white
Ciovo [5k?\]: in both cases he lose sente
Shinato [-\]: i'm not sure about o6 ko 
Kael [2d\]: o19 = 1 gote point
HeeroYuy [4k\]: o6 is no good
Shinato [-\]: i think black would just fill 
Confuse24 [3k\]: theres no ko at 06
Confuse24 [3k\]: o6
YogSothoth [1k\]: j3 weird, too small for now, no?
Johnny5 [7k\]: I'm wanting to say w is ahead, unless I missed counting somewhere
Clark [-\]: o6 black has a lot of ko threats
HeeroYuy [4k\]: o19 for white can take away an eye
]
;W[jo]C[vman [11k\]: M5 n6 l5
vman [11k\]: too late
]
;B[pl]C[clanogrady [4k\]: play a ko at n6?
]
;W[ol]C[clanogrady [4k\]: nvm
ennuistic [1k\]: game is over already
]
;B[om]C[evert [5k\]: b should resign
ennuistic [1k\]: o19
ffhygj: T12
KintaroOe [6k\]: tell me why b should resign? :-/
]
;W[ca]
;B[ba]C[ffhygj: coz he loses
]
;W[da]C[BlackSmurf [2k\]: i get b+2.5
ffhygj: and he know that
Shinato [-\]: because he's behind
ennuistic [1k\]: black is winning.
ennuistic [1k\]: =P
clanogrady [4k\]: AGA counting
Woodstock [-\]: because 5-kyu said so
HeeroYuy [4k\]: o19 is the biggest move
Pyrderi: 5k POWA!
HeeroYuy [4k\]: for both sides
Clark [-\]: yes 5k very good
ffhygj: T12
Johnny5 [7k\]: I'm not sure of AGA rules for counting, how do they work?  Is there a page for the info at sensei's library?
]
;B[si]
;W[sj]
;B[sh]C[ennuistic [1k\]: o19 first before t12
]
;W[na]C[ennuistic [1k\]: ...
ennuistic [1k\]: silly
]
;B[ma]C[ffhygj: no
ennuistic [1k\]: o19 sente.
ffhygj: lol you think a 7D missed that
USGO3 [-\]: you can use either Japanese or Chinese counting with AGA rules
]
;W[kp]C[ennuistic [1k\]: same result, but forces are better
]
;B[lo]
;W[mn]
;B[ga]
;W[fa]
;B[ka]C[Johnny5 [7k\]: But doesn't Chinese rules use dame as well?
]
;W[ha]C[Ciovo [5k?\]: b+1.5?
USGO3 [-\]: the score will be the same
ennuistic [1k\]: no dame in chinese rules.
]
;B[nb]
;W[oa]
;B[ga]C[Johnny5 [7k\]: ah, okay
]
;W[ko]
;B[lq]
;W[ha]C[fly [1k\]: AGA rules are you must pay a stone to pass... thus making J & C the same (almost!)
Arroc [6k\]: AGA uses pass stones with Japanese to make it even.
ennuistic [1k\]: g9
]
;B[sd]
;W[rd]
;B[ga]
;W[mh]
;B[oi]C[ffhygj: g9 yes
]
;W[ha]C[Cassis0 [3d\]: w much more threats
ennuistic [1k\]: black wins regardless.
ennuistic [1k\]: first black win of the day.
fairgo1 [10k\]: hmm
Rodolphe [3d\]: win by 1 points :s
AznKid93 [1d\]: I thought only white needs to give a stone when he/she passes
BALLZ [1d?\]: w+0.5 or 1.5 depending on ko
Jenghis [2k\]: how many dead are there?
Shenron [1d\]: omg w wins!
yoyoma [1d\]: AGA uses pass stones to try to show the world that the different rules are almost identical.  But KGS SE hoses it up and 99% of kibitzers still have no clue what the difference is.
ennuistic [1k\]: i think black needs to give a stone.
Kael [2d\]: ballz: score estimator is wrong a bit- B has one more point around G9 than it shows?
Rodolphe [3d\]: he has not enough ko threat, then 1.5
ennuistic [1k\]: if white passes last, black gives a stone.
fly [1k\]: ...oh yeah, and w must pass last!
]
;B[qi]C[ennuistic [1k\]: principle of even # of moves.
]
;W[rj]
;B[ga]
;W[me]
;B[mc]
;W[ha]
;B[hr]C[fly [1k\]: n15?
]
;W[hs]C[royalty [3d\]: hmm, so this is area scoring?
]
;B[ga]C[fly [1k\]: yes
USGO3 [-\]: yes
]
;W[gk]
;B[gj]
;W[ha]C[fairgo1 [10k\]: very close game
]
;B[gp]C[royalty [3d\]: n15 makes a little more sense then
]
;W[hr]
;B[ga]C[marchetto [2d?\]: so, aren't dame worth more than ko then?
ennuistic [1k\]: heh.
]
;W[me]C[fairgo1 [10k\]: O_O
]
;B[md]
;W[ha]C[BALLZ [1d?\]: hmm, then ko decides
]
;B[hk]
;W[ga]C[Ruzinus [7k?\]: ko contains dame
]
;B[me]C[Rodolphe [3d\]: ho!!!!
]
;W[mg]C[Kael [2d\]: s4 still a threat
Rodolphe [3d\]: yeah S4
Rodolphe [3d\]: absolutly
Woodstock [-\]: two
Xorax [3d\]: doesnt b win?
Confuse24 [3k\]: he does
fairgo1 [10k\]: black wins 
Confuse24 [3k\]: by 4.5
Jenghis [2k\]: white wins
BALLZ [1d?\]: w+0.5
Confuse24 [3k\]: i no him he told me he never beat a pro
sypher [2d\]: black wins by like 12
KintaroOe [6k\]: b wins
USGO3 [-\]: playing too fast for the game recorder now
fairgo1 [10k\]: yep
USGO4 [-\]: They are filling dame
YogSothoth [1k\]: sypher you are so wrong
KintaroOe [6k\]: by about 3.5
yoyoma [1d\]: w+0.5
BALLZ [1d?\]: W+0.5 according to SE with Japanese rules.
KintaroOe [6k\]: b+3.5
Niouth: just wtach
HeeroYuy [4k\]: w by 50
Niouth: and u will know
KintaroOe [6k\]: this is aga rules
Johnny5 [7k\]: w+100  >:(
Rodolphe [3d\]: B + 2.5 count yourself, dont SE
BALLZ [1d?\]: difference is same
skill1 [5k\]: w+0.5
Xorax [3d\]: w +0.5 it seems
USGO3 [-\]: they're counting
GaretJax [6k\]: I am very confused
HeeroYuy [4k\]: w by 150
kuikentje [5k\]: w +0.5 indeed
BesoroDido [7k\]: w + 0
fairgo1 [10k\]: O_O
KintaroOe [6k\]: b wins
fairgo1 [10k\]: who won?!
KintaroOe [6k\]: black
skill1 [5k\]: white win
flyingfox [7d\]: black played horrible yose
Chris929 [14k\]: w+0,5
fairgo1 [10k\]: -_-
Niouth: agree
saru411 [4k\]: w+.5
fairgo1 [10k\]: someone decide
BALLZ [1d?\]: ye, b was ahead
Rodolphe [3d\]: komi is ?
Nouli [-\]: official ?
USGO4 [-\]: Then whilte puts the B captured stones on the board.
BALLZ [1d?\]: 7.5
Rodolphe [3d\]: hahaa
Swordfish7 [5d\]: black+27
fairgo1 [10k\]: komi is 7.5?!
Rodolphe [3d\]: yeah W+ 05
fly [1k\]: w wins by komi
ennuistic [1k\]: ...
ennuistic [1k\]: all white wins.
flyingfox [7d\]: black lost during 2-pt yose stage...not good
Confuse24 [3k\]: who won?
HeeroYuy [4k\]: b win
Svejk [5k\]: drum roll.................
fairgo1 [10k\]: when did they raise the komi?
Rodolphe [3d\]: black is stupid!!!!!!! he was wining with S4 threat!
Almdudler [3d\]: jigo ftw
Karoxys [8k\]: b win
Nano [3k\]: i told ppl b would win
KintaroOe [6k\]: and he did
saru411 [4k\]: aga komi has been 78.5 for some time
saru411 [4k\]: 7.5*
royalty [3d\]: that's a big komi
Confuse24 [3k\]: nano
Confuse24 [3k\]: im not sure
Hu [3k\]: AGA rules are like Chinese, so komi has to be 5.5 or 7.5, no 6.5
Confuse24 [3k\]: that ko was big
Swordfish7 [5d\]: yeah thats some hard komi to beat haha
Nano [3k\]: lol 78.5?
ennuistic [1k\]: white 42 + 14 + komi?
appleseeds [4k?\]: that's what i counted, too
GaretJax [6k\]: why can't it be 6.5 hu?
Confuse24 [3k\]: richard is doing pushups if he loses
Ciovo [5k?\]: it 78.5 i want to be white :P
Shock1989 [4k\]: B has 2 threads and w have 2 too..
USGO4 [-\]: Black ahead by 7 on the board, but komi is 7.5.  
YangX [4d\]: =O
Confuse24 [3k\]: damn
KintaroOe [6k\]: O_O
YangX [4d\]: w+0.5
Hu [3k\]: See the Sensei's Library pages, Garetjax.
Hagalaz [4k\]: poor richard
Chris929 [14k\]: w+0,5
USGO3 [-\]: Thanks for watching; stay tuned for more exciting top-board games this week!
USGO4 [-\]: So white wins by 0.5 points
Rodolphe [3d\]: but S4!!!
royalty [3d\]: dont let your guard down against pros
Kael [2d\]: where were W's two ko threats?
Hu [3k\]: They explain better than I do.
KintaroOe [6k\]: i hate the world >_<
Kael [2d\]: S4.... 
Nano [3k\]: komi is stupid
YogSothoth [1k\]: s4 wasn't enough
Shock1989 [4k\]: w have 2 threads 
YogSothoth [1k\]: w still had two threats
Rodolphe [3d\]: noyeah
HeeroYuy [4k\]: 54 w 63b 
Lever [12k\]: One point better yose to change the game...
Hu [3k\]: No, Nano.
fairgo1 [10k\]: why did they raise komi?
Shock1989 [4k\]: S4 t3 
Kael [2d\]: where are W's two threats?  I think I'm blind.
HeeroYuy [4k\]: not counting komi
Almdudler [3d\]: what the hell is the result?
uuffy: b+0.5
Shock1989 [4k\]: And for w L11 and O6
Rodolphe [3d\]: S4 and T3, black would win!
Hu [3k\]: Komi has been set according to statistics from pro games.
saru411 [4k\]: w+0.5
ennuistic [1k\]: no.
Lifestream [-\]: l11 and o6 
ffhygj: b sucks
Ciovo [5k?\]: w+0.5!!
ennuistic [1k\]: black counted correctly
Swordfish7 [5d\]: W+0.5 OFFICIAL RESULT
YogSothoth [1k\]: w's threats are at k11 and n13
ennuistic [1k\]: this is the result.
USGO4 [-\]: They were careful in the counting to have only one player at a time manipulate the stones.
YogSothoth [1k\]: Rodolphe, you are wrong
Cassis0 [3d\]: b played too passive in yose
ennuistic [1k\]: white had just finished capturing though.
Rodolphe [3d\]: why YOg?
ennuistic [1k\]: therefore, black would have to use a threat first
Vash3G [-\]: USGO: whats the final score?
YogSothoth [1k\]: w has two threats
YogSothoth [1k\]: so w wins ko
Rodolphe [3d\]: which ones?
saru411 [4k\]: usgo you have the record in case of any disputes
USGO3 [-\]: W+0.5
Ciovo [5k?\]: w+0.5
USGO4 [-\]: Thank you all for your attentiion
Tower [3d\]: wow
Lifestream [-\]: l11 o6 for w
Ciovo [5k?\]: thank you!!!
YogSothoth [1k\]: n13 and l11
uuffy: wait dame is odd...
baltomazta [3k\]: lol.
Tower [3d\]: neat
Hu [3k\]: Need to fill all the dame.  It could make a difference of one point.  Crucial for this game.
Almdudler [3d\]: Hu lol
YogSothoth [1k\]: and o6
ennuistic [1k\]: no dame.
YogSothoth [1k\]: so three threats
Almdudler [3d\]: still not banned?
])
